The Mix interview

ABC NEWS NOW/THE MIX
5 July 2006
ABC News Now: In the Mix
English
Copyright © 2006 American Broadcasting Companies, Inc. All Rights Reserved.

TOPIC:

CONTENT: MACBETH," JENNIFER EHLE, SHAKESPEARE, OUTDOOR DELACORTE THEATER, LADY MACBETH, LIVE SCHREIBER

GRAPHICS: THE MIX

GRAPHICS: ENTERTAINMENT & CULTURAL AFFAIRS

BILL BLAKEMORE (ABC NEWS)

(OC) Welcome to 'The Mix." I'm Bill Blakemore. Since 1962, The Public Theatre has staged productions of Shakespeare at the Outdoor Delacorte Theatre in New York City Central Park.

GRAPHICS: "MACBETH"

BILL BLAKEMORE (ABC NEWS)

(OC) These performances are offered free of charge. And, are seen by about 80,000 New Yorkers and visitors each summer. In fact, since it's an inception, over 83 productions have been presented and seen by a total of more than 4 million people. 'Macbeth" is currently in production. It stars Liev Schreiber as Macbeth and as Lady Macbeth, Jennifer Ehle. Let's take a look at Macbeth's famous scene in which he realizes that just having committed to murder, he has also murdered his own sleep.

CLIP FROM "MACBETH"

LIEV SCHREIBER (MACBETH

Glamis hath murdered sleep, and therefore Cawdor shall sleep no more. Macbeth shall sleep no more.

JENNIFER EHLE (ACTRESS

Who was it that thus cried? Why, worthy Thane, you do unbend your noble strength to think so brainsickly of things. Go get some water and wash this filthy witness from your hands. Why have you pulled the daggers from the place? They must lie there. Go carry them. Smear the sleepy grooms with blood.

LIEV SCHREIBER (MACBETH

I'll go no more. I am afraid to think what I have done. Look on it again, I dare not.

JENNIFER EHLE (ACTRESS

Infirm on purpose, give me the daggers. The sleeping and the dead are but as pictures. 'Tis the eye childhood that fears the painted devil. If he do bleed, I'll gild the faces of the grooms withal. For it must seem their guilt.

BILL BLAKEMORE (ABC NEWS)

(OC) We are joined by the director of 'Macbeth," Mister Moises Kaufman and Lady Macbeth, Jennifer Ehle.

GRAPHICS: SHAKESPEARE IN THE PARKS' "MACBETH"

BILL BLAKEMORE (ABC NEWS)

(OC) Let me start with you, Miss Ehle. You look a little bit different when I saw you a few nights ago. You don't look like Lady Macbeth at all. How in the heaven's name did you prepare for this part? I don't suppose this is one of those parts were you find your inner Lady Macbeth to speak of it and bring that out.

JENNIFER EHLE (ACTRESS

Well, you follow the story. So, I guess, she does emerge. I never wanted to come at it as a applying a Lady Macbeth. I had received ideas about who she was, even though I hadn't ever really paid much attention to the play. I didn't believe in what I, I had read it and I had seen it. But, I never found her very interesting. Because, she'd always seemed like not quite a real person to me. And, then, when I knew that Moises was doing this at The Public. I sat down and read the play and found that I really, really liked her. And, that she wasn't at all who I had ever believed her to be.

BILL BLAKEMORE (ABC NEWS)

(OC) You liked her?

JENNIFER EHLE (ACTRESS

I do. I like her.

BILL BLAKEMORE (ABC NEWS)

(OC) You made, you made her very interesting, I must say. What did you, was there a psychological key to this famous monster?

JENNIFER EHLE (ACTRESS

No, well, I don't think, I mean, I think, she is a monster. Of course, anybody who kills another human being and cold blooded is a monster. But, I don't think that, you should be able to be in the room with her and not be aware that she's a monster. I think, that's a true monster, isn't it?

BILL BLAKEMORE (ABC NEWS)

(OC) That's what makes it so frightening?

JENNIFER EHLE (ACTRESS

Yes.

GRAPHICS: SHAKESPEARE IN THE PARK TAKES PLACE EACH SUMMER IN NYC'S CENTRAL PARK

BILL BLAKEMORE (ABC NEWS)

(OC) There wasn't some thought like, this is one who has to be in control or just has to have...

JENNIFER EHLE (ACTRESS

She just, if they just can do this one little thing then, life would be okay.

BILL BLAKEMORE (ABC NEWS)

(OC) Ah.

JENNIFER EHLE (ACTRESS

It's just, just one little thing. And, it's a horrible thing. And, she knows it's a horrible thing. But, just, if we do this, then, for the rest of our life, we will be so happy. And, we will have...

GRAPHICS: PERFORMANCES ARE FREE

BILL BLAKEMORE (ABC NEWS)

(OC) Just a little murder. And, then...

JENNIFER EHLE (ACTRESS

Just a little murder and then, we'll be fine. And, it, unfortunately, I think she would be capable of doing that. But, he is not. And, so, since he is not, their marriage falls apart, everything falls apart. And so, she loses everything because he can't live with the guilt.

GRAPHICS: 1ST COME, 1ST SERVED BASIS

BILL BLAKEMORE (ABC NEWS)

(OC) So, she made that little mistake in logic?

JENNIFER EHLE (ACTRESS

Yeah.

BILL BLAKEMORE (ABC NEWS)

(OC) How to live a happy life?

JENNIFER EHLE (ACTRESS

And, she believed that he wanted. I mean, he's the one who first broaches it. And, she believes, she knows that he doesn't have the backbone, the spine to kill. And, so she says, 'I will back you up. I will give you the result that you need. Wherever you have gaps, I will fill it in." And, she makes that vow and she follows through and does it. And, it's a terrible, terrible mistake.

CLIP FROM "MACBETH

JENNIFER EHLE (ACTRESS

Lo you, here she comes. This is her very guise. And upon my life, fast asleep. Observe her. Stand close.

DOCTOR ("MACBETH")

How came she by that light.

GENTLEWOMAN ('MACBETH")

Why, it stood by her. She has light by her continually. 'Tis her command.

DOCTOR ("MACBETH")

You see, her eyes are open.

GENTLEWOMAN ("MACBETH")

Ay, but their sense are shut.

DOCTOR ("MACBETH")

What is it she does now? Look how she rubs her hands.

GENTLEWOMAN ("MACBETH")

It is an accustomed action with her to seem does washing her hands. I have known continue in this a quarter of an hour.

JENNIFER EHLE (ACTRESS

Yet, here is a spot.

DOCTOR ("MACBETH")

Hark. She speaks.

JENNIFER EHLE (ACTRESS

Out damned spot. Out, I say. One, two, why then 'tis time to do it. Hell, 'tis murky. Fie, my lord. Fie. A soldier and a feared.

BILL BLAKEMORE (ABC NEWS)

(OC) Look, you made it quite chilling. Moises Kaufman, what were the strengths in this actress that you saw you were going to be able to work with? How did you work together on this to build and bring out this character she's describing to us?

MOISES KAUFMAN (DIRECTOR

We have never worked together before. But I have loved 'Macbeth" for many years and when Oscar used to said (sic), 'What do you wanna do?" I said I wanna do 'Macbeth." And when I was thinking about 'Macbeth," all I kept thinking was about Jennifer for Lady Macbeth. I have seen her work for a long time and have been great fan. We have never met. And then, so she got a call and we said okay, we'll meet and we'll have lunch. And we met at a diner and had lunch. And everything we thought about the character was very, very similar. Right from the word go. So, it was a great fantasy of mine to have her play Lady Macbeth. I mean, she was my first choice and it came true and I was so...

BILL BLAKEMORE (ABC NEWS)

(OC) And give us an insight here into what you find here, the key to making Lady Macbeth so steely and frightening at the same time.

MOISES KAUFMAN (DIRECTOR

Well, what really always struck me is that whenever I saw a production of 'Macbeth," Lady Macbeth was always played as a, this sexual predator. That she uses her sexuality to convince Macbeth to do things. And to me, that seems so uninteresting because, to me, the play is not about that. To me the play is about ambition and it is about what do we do to get what we want. And in that sense, the way we kept talking about Lady Macbeth was about this woman who really wanted something that she, that she and her husband wanted together. The two of them wanted it at the same time. And so, that idea of the two of them being a team felt like it made a lot of sense.

BILL BLAKEMORE (ABC NEWS)

(OC) This was a production in the out of doors. What does that add? Is this the first time you've acted out of doors?

JENNIFER EHLE (ACTRESS

Yes, it is.

BILL BLAKEMORE (ABC NEWS)

(OC) Is it difficult?

JENNIFER EHLE (ACTRESS

No. I absolutely adore it and I can't wait to do it again.

BILL BLAKEMORE (ABC NEWS)

(OC) What does it add to be able to be outdoors and have the sky for your ceiling?

JENNIFER EHLE (ACTRESS

Well, it's a wonderful, unpredictable leading character.

BILL BLAKEMORE (ABC NEWS)

(OC) The weather?

JENNIFER EHLE (ACTRESS

Yes. It adds, it adds, it intrudes, it enhances, it takes away, it makes things, I don't know. It's fascinating. You never know what's gonna happen? You never know whether you're actually gonna get to perform. It makes...

BILL BLAKEMORE (ABC NEWS)

(OC) Mm-hmm.

JENNIFER EHLE (ACTRESS

...it very exciting. You might suddenly have to take break. The wind sometimes, the first, I think, it was the first night we did it. Liev had this incredible sort of summoning dark incantation sort of speech. And at that moment, this wind came up and the rains started just to patter down, just a few drops and it was really eerie.

BILL BLAKEMORE (ABC NEWS)

(OC) So, you play with it. I mean, people say of course, the great difference between movies and live theater is that the audience is a character that knows that it could change the way it's going. And now, you have this third element, the weather becomes the character.

JENNIFER EHLE (ACTRESS

Yeah.

BILL BLAKEMORE (ABC NEWS)

(VO) It must be quite a challenge for the director to...

MOISES KAUFMAN (DIRECTOR

Yes.

BILL BLAKEMORE (ABC NEWS)

(VO) ...to feel whatever you're shaping is gonna stay the shape you want it to when the weather is intruding as it did the night I saw it with all these lowering clouds.

MOISES KAUFMAN (DIRECTOR

Well, not only that. We lost two days of rehearsals right before we were about to have the first preview because rain. So, I became rather aware of how much I love a roof. There is a reason why theaters after the 16th century have roofs.

JENNIFER EHLE (ACTRESS

It rained the whole week of our technical rehearsals. So, all the play was in shape and ready to go. But we had to do, put in the sound cues and do the lighting, and you can only do that at night clearly, the lighting. And it rained two nights in a row, so we were two nights behind in the tech.

BILL BLAKEMORE (ABC NEWS)

(OC) Well, all these rain we've been having in New York this summer seems perfect for this play, which is so full of stormy weather up there in Scotland.

JENNIFER EHLE (ACTRESS

Unless you're sitting outside.

BILL BLAKEMORE (ABC NEWS)

(OC) Right. Unless you're sitting outside, of course. But so, so that adds a little bit of suspense.

JENNIFER EHLE (ACTRESS

It does. I mean, the lowering clouds like you said are very, they're very atmospheric. And some nights we have to go up later and so then, all, you get used to the light being at a certain point of darkness, you know, as the evening progresses. And if you, like last night we went up at 9:00, I think, instead of 8:30. And so everything sort of moved on and that's exciting too because it adds suddenly a whole different element.

MOISES KAUFMAN (DIRECTOR

That was something really important that I asked Oscar, the artistic director of The Public on our first meeting night. Because usually it starts at 8:00, for 'Macbeth" I didn't want to do this play in the daylight. I wanted, so, I asked him if we could set it at 8:30 and that's why the play starts at 8:30.

JENNIFER EHLE (ACTRESS

It's a great idea.

BILL BLAKEMORE (ABC NEWS)

(OC) So, it could be a bit darker. Well, it's a, it was quite chilling. Although, it was a warm evening, it was quite an effect that you got out of it there. Jennifer Ehle, thanks very much for joining us. When we come back in a moment, Moises and I will be joined by one of the three Weird Sisters, actress Lynn Cohen. We'll be right back.

COMMERCIAL BREAK

LYNN COHEN (ACTRESS

If a man were Porter upheld gate, he should get old turning the key. Knock, knock, knock, who's therein the name of the Hazel Bob. Oh, here's a merchant that hanged himself on expectation of profit. Come in time, have napkins enough about you. Hairy, all sweat for it. Knock, knock, who's there in the other devil's name? Fate, here's a legislator. They got swear him both the scales against evil scale, who committed treason enough for god's sake. You could not equivocate, they haven't, oh, come in, equivocator. Knock, knock, who's there? Fate, here's a priest. Come head up for stealing the innocence of a young boy. Come in, priest. Here, you may roast your goose. Knock, knock, never it quiet. What are you? But this place is too cold for hell. I'll devil Porter at no further. I have trot to let in some of all professions. There goes the primrose way to the everlasting bonfire. Another knock and I pray you. Remember the Porter.

BILL BLAKEMORE (ABC NEWS)

(OC) That was actress, Lynn Cohen, who plays one of the three 'Weird Sisters," also known as the three witches. And in a real innovation in this production, she also plays, as we just saw, the role of the drunken Porter, usually played by a man. Lynn, welcome. Director Moises Kaufman...

LYNN COHEN (ACTRESS

Whose idea it was.

BILL BLAKEMORE (ABC NEWS)

(OC) ...whose idea it was, how did you come up with this innovation? Because this, of course, is that very important opportunity, which Shakespeare provides the director, one moment of clear comedy in what is otherwise a bloody play?

MOISES KAUFMAN (DIRECTOR

Well, we had the wonderful possibility of having Lynn play it, so that was a big, big plus. I just found so much of the text that the Porter has, is about gender, and I thought, 'Wouldn't it be interesting to see it done by a woman?" Also, in, by setting it in the period before World War I, what it also does is that, the household of the 'Macbeth" is populated with many servants. So, it's interesting to have one of the maids, be the Porter and, so, that's how that Idea come about. And then, when Lynn and I started talking about it, I loved what she was doing with it.

BILL BLAKEMORE (ABC NEWS)

(OC) How did you approach this challenge to create this as a woman for probably the first time?

LYNN COHEN (ACTRESS

It was great because I think it evolved because I never wanted to do a woman doing a man. And I think the turning point was, I mean, we had many roads that we went along, was that one day, Moises said, you know, 'This is the woman who's been mad for 20 years, angry for 20 years." And one of the things is, 'Why don't I just answer the door? Go back to bed and start drinking or whatever?" And it's because it's my time to talk to the audience and it's so delicious and it's such a gift.

GRAPHICS: COHEN HAS BEEN IN "MUNICH" & "SVU"

BILL BLAKEMORE (ABC NEWS)

(OC) And you got a great deal of humor out of it and, indeed, this idea of having the spotlight pick out different members of the audience and point to them as...

LYNN COHEN (ACTRESS

Right. It's my scene partner. I mean, it's the element that we needed for this character and it can only happen when people showed up. And to do what in this space with the people, who want to be in that, is, I just can't tell you what a gift it is.

MOISES KAUFMAN (DIRECTOR

Well, it's a sort of moment that even if, within Shakespeare's time , he's so theatrically innovative, that he is saying, you know, to the people in the audience, 'You've just been seeing this household, that he's rather evil. But when would you come, spend a night with us?" You know.

BILL BLAKEMORE (ABC NEWS)

(VO) Right.

MOISES KAUFMAN (DIRECTOR

And in that way it involves the audience and he'd plays with the meta-theatrical element of, 'You're here, we're here, we're telling the story together, who are you?" And she has the line, 'What are you?" You know, 'Here's a legislator," she says, 'Here's a priest," 'Here's a merchant." Each, somebody who has done something horrific, that belongs into how we've created. And then she says, 'Who are you? And, 'What you're doing?" You know.

LYNN COHEN (ACTRESS

Yeah.

BILL BLAKEMORE (ABC NEWS)

(OC) And it gets to the conscience of the audience. And also gives us a bit of a break from all the blood that's been piling up so far.

MOISES KAUFMAN (DIRECTOR

Which he knew very wisely, we need it.

BILL BLAKEMORE (ABC NEWS)

(OC) Shakespeare?

LYNN COHEN (ACTRESS

Right.

BILL BLAKEMORE (ABC NEWS)

(OC) Right.

LYNN COHEN (ACTRESS

Genius. Also, there's a sexuality, I can say sexuality, right?

BILL BLAKEMORE (ABC NEWS)

(OC) Yes.

LYNN COHEN (ACTRESS

God, oh, by what? I really, really say sexuality.

BILL BLAKEMORE (ABC NEWS)

(VO) Right.

LYNN COHEN (ACTRESS

It's a sexuality that is wonderfully female in it, and I don't even know how a man does that role anymore.

BILL BLAKEMORE (ABC NEWS)

(VO) Really?

LYNN COHEN (ACTRESS

No. Yeah.

BILL BLAKEMORE (ABC NEWS)

(OC) When usually it's done by a guy playing a really drunk old guy, who just sort of...

LYNN COHEN (ACTRESS

Right.

BILL BLAKEMORE (ABC NEWS)

(OC) ...slopping around the stage?

LYNN COHEN (ACTRESS

But I mean, he , it talks a lot about drinking and sex and sin and...

BILL BLAKEMORE (ABC NEWS)

(OC) That's right.

LYNN COHEN (ACTRESS

...and who better...

BILL BLAKEMORE (ABC NEWS)

(OC) And made it very playful. One of the fun things for the audience, of course, in Shakespeare's time and in this production as well, is we see individual actors playing separate parts.

LYNN COHEN (ACTRESS

Right.

BILL BLAKEMORE (ABC NEWS)

(OC) And it doesn't hurt that you're also one of the three people we've already met playing one of the three witches.

LYNN COHEN (ACTRESS

Wonderful women.

MOISES KAUFMAN (DIRECTOR

Yes.

LYNN COHEN (ACTRESS

And that also was Moises. I mean, these are two glorious actresses, Ching Valdes-Aran and Joan MacIntosh. I mean, we decided that between the three of us. We have like 150 years of acting experience and...

BILL BLAKEMORE (ABC NEWS)

(OC) Is it fun to play a witch?

LYNN COHEN (ACTRESS

It's, well, for one thing, we're not a witch. We're weird sister. We are the women.

BILL BLAKEMORE (ABC NEWS)

(OC) You stand for fate, for being able to tell the characters, what their future is.

LYNN COHEN (ACTRESS

Yes. They really guide the show. I mean, Moises will, please, you know.

MOISES KAUFMAN (DIRECTOR

But again, in this production we, you know, there's one thing that Shakespeare does. He never calls them witches himself. He calls them the weird sisters thereby, opening up for interpretation of who are these women. And in the play, as you know, somebody calls them a witch. Somebody says. 'You're a witch." And they proceed to put the greatest curse on this person. So, they resent very much being called witches. So we're very careful in rehearsal never to do that one.

BILL BLAKEMORE (ABC NEWS)

(OC) Indeed. And we, as the audience, as the play develops, develop a great deal of respect for them because everything they say comes true.

LYNN COHEN (ACTRESS

Right, right.

BILL BLAKEMORE (ABC NEWS)

(OC) And eventually, I suppose, Macbeth, and Lady Macbeth to their horror, develop a complete trust as well in fate.

MOISES KAUFMAN (DIRECTOR

Yes.

LYNN COHEN (ACTRESS

That's, I'd love to, that's a clarity of this production. And the honesty of this production is the strength of the women in it.

BILL BLAKEMORE (ABC NEWS)

(OC) Yes.

LYNN COHEN (ACTRESS

And those, and I'm talking about the weird sisters, then I'm talking about the porter and Lady MacDuff who stands up, too. I mean, and Lady Macbeth, who, of course is...

BILL BLAKEMORE (ABC NEWS)

(OC) Right.

LYNN COHEN (ACTRESS

Amazing. And I think that's, Moises. I know.

BILL BLAKEMORE (ABC NEWS)

(OC) You know, there's something about this theater, so many of the theaters in New York City have the old (inaudible) marks. The audience is out here. There's that invisible fourth wall and, but this is in the three quarters. It's got a hundred, 1,800 people. Yet it feels like a tiny theater.

MOISES KAUFMAN (DIRECTOR

It's very intimate.

LYNN COHEN (ACTRESS

Isn't that wonderful?

BILL BLAKEMORE (ABC NEWS)

(OC) Do you love acting on the stage?

LYNN COHEN (ACTRESS

I just love this. Liev said in, toward the end of the rehearsal, it's a gift to do it. And it is a gift to do this play in this space for these people.

BILL BLAKEMORE (ABC NEWS)

(OC) Because like Shakespeare's own theater, it's outdoors and in the rounds.

LYNN COHEN (ACTRESS

Right.

MOISES KAUFMAN (DIRECTOR

Correct. And not only that. You really feel the difference by the mere fact that it's free. It is such a democratic event, you know. It really, you know, in Greek times, of course, theater was in the, an open-air theater. And this reminds us a lot of that because everybody, all kinds of different people from all parts of our society can come. And, you know, in the theater, people always says, say, 'Well, people don't come to the theater for many different reasons. It's not about the money." It is about the money. And it is about that, you know, if you have a free theater, the demographics of that audience is (sic) so different form the audience of most of the theater in America.

BILL BLAKEMORE (ABC NEWS)

(OC) Mm-hmm. Very interesting points. So there's much more of an interplay between, it's a live event between whatever this audience is worrying about and whatever the resonance in the play is.

LYNN COHEN (ACTRESS

Absolutely.

MOISES KAUFMAN (DIRECTOR

Completely. And the fact, and they stay five hours in line to get tickets.

LYNN COHEN (ACTRESS

Right. Right.

MOISES KAUFMAN (DIRECTOR

These are people who want to be there. And you see the demographics are many more young people. There are many more, there's much more interracial population. It's everything that one, as a theater-maker hopes all theater would be. And you'll realize that one of the main reason why this, is an economic reason. Who can afford $80 a ticket or $100 a ticket or $250 a ticket?

BILL BLAKEMORE (ABC NEWS)

(OC) Indeed. Well, we're out of time. I'd love to talk about this for a long time because this was a very vibrant performance and some of the clearest Shakespeare acting I've seen in a long time as completely accessible. Thanks so much for coming in.

LYNN COHEN (ACTRESS

Thank you.

MOISES KAUFMAN (DIRECTOR

Thank you very much.

BILL BLAKEMORE (ABC NEWS)

(OC) And thank you for joining us. You can catch 'Shakespeare in the Park" in New York City's Central Park every summer. Thanks for watching 'The Mix." See you next time.